1. We're talking about "morning after" pill here ONLY (at least we started with it, than it went series of off-topics about a bunch of other different things). 2. As for me - I guess I'm neither "right", nor "left" - I'm an individualist-egoist. And I always preferred to stear clear of too radical ppl, no matter if they are liberals or conservatives. 3. THE ONLY VOICE OF COMMON SENCE HERE IN THIS TOPIC I HEARD FROM LISICHKA (PAGE 1, 3-D POST FROMT HE BOTTOM OF THE PAGE): Qoute ("C" Lisichka): ".......The morning after pill has to be taken no more than 5 days after unprotected sex for it to work. The EARLIEST a pregnancy test can determine you are pregnant is 4 days before your expected period or 10 days after unprotected sex, and for the test to get its 99% accuracy (ALL of them) you have to wait until 14 days after unprotected sex. (Remember, you only get pregnant when you ovulate - on average 14 days before your period. The reason the rhythm method is so hard is you may ovulate at a wierd time in your cycle, but you'll ALWAYS have your period 14 days after you ovulate.) At the time you have to take this pill, you can't know if you're pregnant or not. And really, even if you could, at 5 days the blastocyst (not even an embryo, much less a fetus or baby!) is just a blob of cells... can you really call that an abortion? And the most practical reason: This is not a cheap method of birthcontrol! Condoms and the pill are much more likely to increase promiscuity (AS IF!! how insulting!) than the morning after pill. You'd have to go buy it EVERY time you have sex to make sure you don't get pregnant! Do you really think people are going to do that regularly? No. Just the ones who slip up on occasion. The cost itself will keep it from being used as an everyday form of contraception.". "If love is the answer, could you rephrase the question?" Lilly Tomlin.

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Originally posted by AHTOH: I like this Howard Jones guy...He seems to be able to reason with those liberals...I usually just go straight for the jugular...

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AHTOH I agree with you totally! But first, you want to get them close enough, so that when you go for the juglar, there will be NO Escape!

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Howard Jones III
SONS OF THUNDER
www.ResurrectedSons.com
Resurrected for a Revolution!!
www.myspace.com/resurrectedsons

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Originally posted by Howard Jones:

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Originally posted by AHTOH: I like this Howard Jones guy...He seems to be able to reason with those liberals...I usually just go straight for the jugular...

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AHTOH I agree with you totally! But first, you want to get them close enough, so that when you go for the juglar, there will be NO Escape!

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When you are trying to assert your will & your laws against a woman's power over her own destiny & her own body..... Trust me... You don't want her that close!!! On your comments on switching doctors.... A society has to be responsible that medicine is practiced well by people who are being objective & scientific about it...not imposing their own moral view on someone who has come to them for learned advice in the medical realm. We should all care that everyone gets good healthcare. Doctor patient trust is a indispensable element of healthcare. Anais "And the day came when the risk to remain tight in a bud was more painful than the risk it took to blossom." Anais Nin

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Originally posted by snake: with that you are in agreement with the liberal left and cpac... a rare agreement.. [quote]Originally posted by Anais: I can say that it shouldn't be used to line Haliburton/Bechtel's pockets....

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CPAC Rare indeed, my friend!!! CPAC doesn't want tax money to line Haliburton's pockets? Anais "And the day came when the risk to remain tight in a bud was more painful than the risk it took to blossom." Anais Nin

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Originally posted by Howard Jones: First Off, I think Tarzan has the right idea, alot of the shame and stigma of being pregnant out of wedlock has totally disappeared. It has become almost normal to see some high schools pregnant and in class. Remember a few years ago, the scandal in Rockdale county, that was aired on public Television called "the Lost Children of Rockdale County" where a syfilus(sp) epidemic broke out, 150 High School kids all got STD's, they were seen giving each other the High Five at the Public Health Clinic. There was no shame, it had become a badge of honor, so to speak. What would have once brought shame to them, now makes them one of the cool kids? One of the girls talked about how her friend pulled a train, had sex with a large number of boys at a party, and then strutted around the party, as if she were the homecoming queen. "The government makes a lousy parent." excellent comment Tarzan!

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Howard, unfortunately during these “ACLU-suing-Clinton-not-having” days, decency and moral have became a dirty words... "Вошел в интернет, как в женщину..."

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anais, conservatives still view women as bible tells them to - property.. that's why they are against abortion... that's why they still think woman's place is in the kitchen, and the only profession that is good for a woman is motherhood... these people stuck in the middle ages... lyosha ****************** What is freedom of expression? Without the freedom to offend, it ceases to exist.

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lyosha
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What is freedom of expression? Without the freedom to offend, it ceases to exist.

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Originally posted by Howard Jones:

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Originally posted by AHTOH: I like this Howard Jones guy...He seems to be able to reason with those liberals...I usually just go straight for the jugular...

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AHTOH I agree with you totally! But first, you want to get them close enough, so that when you go for the juglar, there will be NO Escape!

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Is this peaceful religious guy or angry warrior talking ? I respect people right to believe in Jesus, Chrishna, or some Greek Goddess and Gods, but could you please respect at least woman's right to believe in what she wants and don't make decisions for HER, she has own brain. never say never

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- Доктор, я жить буду?

- А смысл ?

VIV

Viktory L, you are asking for too much.. religious fundamentalists don't think women are individuals... i am very sorry for their wives... lyosha ****************** What is freedom of expression? Without the freedom to offend, it ceases to exist.

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lyosha
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What is freedom of expression? Without the freedom to offend, it ceases to exist.

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Originally posted by snake: anais, conservatives still view women as bible tells them to - property.. that's why they are against abortion... that's why they still think woman's place is in the kitchen, and the only profession that is good for a woman is motherhood... these people stuck in the middle ages... lyosha ****************** What is freedom of expression? Without the freedom to offend, it ceases to exist.

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That is a very broad and intolerant statement presuming to speak for all conservatives who oppose abortion. Because I would never presume to boldly state as fact why everyone else does or does not oppose or support a given issue, I will speak only for myself. I have already stated earlier in this thread my reasons for opposing abortion so I will not repeat them. I am not now, nor will I ever be, the property of any other person. My place is wherever I choose for it to be. The occupation that is good for me, whether that is motherhood and/or any other, is whatever occupation I choose. I am conservative and I oppose abortion. Your statement has now been disproved.

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Originally posted by snake: Viktory L, you are asking for too much.. religious fundamentalists don't think women are individuals... i am very sorry for their wives... lyosha ****************** What is freedom of expression? Without the freedom to offend, it ceases to exist.

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It's true. It's astounding to me. Truly astounding. And what's really weird is to hear it from the women themselves.... or from young people.... it blows my mind. A woman I sang in chorus with in highschool was walking in a group of male & female people & they were trying to decide what to do next & she actually said.... "Will one of you males please make a decision?" I thought I was going to choke on my own breath.....and I was only 17 (pre-feminist consciousness days).... What in the hell!? This slave mentality. This self-hatred [thanks to societal programming to maintain the power structure that benefits the powerful & religious teachings (not that different from the former)] Laziness... desperation to be accepted at any cost..... It was freakish. I wouldn't want this if I were a male. Property must be maintained. Must be protected. Must be moved thru space & time... Hell... I have enough problem just dragging my own a$$ thru space & time.... no space or time for someone else's.... I wouldn't want a dormat for a partner. I wouldn't want someone with no will no kick no fire no opinion..... if a woman is to be a property with no individual rights or ideas of her own....what's the difference between that & masturbation? Anais "And the day came when the risk to remain tight in a bud was more painful than the risk it took to blossom." Anais Nin

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Originally posted by Anais:

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Originally posted by snake: Viktory L, you are asking for too much.. religious fundamentalists don't think women are individuals... i am very sorry for their wives... lyosha ****************** What is freedom of expression? Without the freedom to offend, it ceases to exist.

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It's true. It's astounding to me. Truly astounding. And what's really weird is to hear it from the women themselves.... or from young people.... it blows my mind. A woman I sang in chorus with in highschool was walking in a group of male & female people & they were trying to decide what to do next & she actually said.... "Will one of you males please make a decision?" I thought I was going to choke on my own breath.....and I was only 17 (pre-feminist consciousness days).... What in the hell!? This slave mentality. This self-hatred [thanks to societal programming to maintain the power structure that benefits the powerful & religious teachings (not that different from the former)] Laziness... desperation to be accepted at any cost..... It was freakish. I wouldn't want this if I were a male. Property must be maintained. Must be protected. Must be moved thru space & time... Hell... I have enough problem just dragging my own a$$ thru space & time.... no space or time for someone else's.... I wouldn't want a dormat for a partner. I wouldn't want someone with no will no kick no fire no opinion..... if a woman is to be a property with no individual rights or ideas of her own....what's the difference between that & masturbation? Anais "And the day came when the risk to remain tight in a bud was more painful than the risk it took to blossom." Anais Nin

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I am a woman. I started this topic. I can assure you that I have my own opinion about this issue that was not forced upon me by any man or any religious institution. The opinion that I hold is the result of my individual rights and ideas of my own, not the opposite. To conclude otherwise is an insult.

I was speaking in general terms, Leah. I don't know you well enough to make any conclusions regarding you personally. Anais "And the day came when the risk to remain tight in a bud was more painful than the risk it took to blossom." Anais Nin

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Originally posted by Anais: I was speaking in general terms, Leah. I don't know you well enough to make any conclusions regarding you personally. Anais "And the day came when the risk to remain tight in a bud was more painful than the risk it took to blossom." Anais Nin

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And I am referring to the general direction this thread has taken, not just your post, that is concluding that all against abortion must be overzealous religious wackos with no other purpose than to stamp across the forehead of women "property of cave man".

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Originally posted by Leah: And I am referring to the general direction this thread has taken, not just your post, that is concluding that all against abortion must be overzealous religious wackos with no other purpose than to stamp across the forehead of women "property of cave man".

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That is grossly overgeneralized, but true in crude essence. Furthermore, I think it's not so far from reality. There are anti-abortion people who are overzealoused religious wackos who do consider women as men's property. I once got into an argument with one in a class who actually said that the woman is supposed to give her will up to the man.... the old school Southern Baptist wacko thing... Do you ever watch late night religious wacko tv... Or listen to Dr Laura (gag) Some anti-choice people are genuinely concerned about the zygote/fetus & aren't using this issue as a way to control women.....but not all. And in the end...if the fetus's welfare is more important than the mother's....where her will is subjugated to it's assumed will to continue dividing & developing.... then is she is property. She is it's incubator with no place to choose the fate of her own body & her future. Abortion is not fun. It's not an easy choice. No one really 'wants' an abortion... but it's still a woman's body & it's still her choice to decide what to do with it without government or anyone else's intervention. Anais "And the day came when the risk to remain tight in a bud was more painful than the risk it took to blossom." Anais Nin

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Originally posted by Anais: And in the end...if the fetus's welfare is more important than the mother's....where her will is subjugated to it's assumed will to continue dividing & developing.... then is she is property. She is it's incubator with no place to choose the fate of her own body & her future. Anais "And the day came when the risk to remain tight in a bud was more painful than the risk it took to blossom." Anais Nin

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Rape, incest, and threat to the life of the mother account for between 1% and 7% (depending on who has conducted the survey...some include health problems of the baby in those numbers) of all abortions performed in the United States. That means that at least 93% of those women who have had abortions had opportunity in advance to "choose the fate of her own body & her future". As for the rest, if that is how you feel about pregnancy, it sounds as though biology is the subjugator, not men.